How Can the Dodge Challenger be More Competitive?

"RightFootDown" (rightfootdown) 06/19/2015 at 14:26 • Filed to: None

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It’s no secret we love the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! versions of the Challenger and Charger. But are they enough to truly make Dodge competitive in the performance car market? We have all seen the “Dodge Brothers” commercials showing the ‘Cats doing burnouts alongside the Viper. The ingredients are there, to be sure, but what recipe does MOPAR need to use to ensure that their Challenger can successfully…um…challenge Mustang and Camaro? Especially in a time when their rivals have new versions in Ford dealerships and coming soon to Chevy dealers?

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The Numbers

When you talk automotive “competition” with regard to sheer numbers, there are basically two elements to consider. There are bare knuckle performance numbers like horsepower, torque, 0-60, lateral Gs, lap times, drag times, curb weight, etc. And then there are the all important sales figures. You can have superiority with the former, and be a complete failure with the latter. Just look at the Viper. Since our focus is on the performance side, we’ll start with the boring bit, sales figures. The Challenger is getting killed, pure and simple. The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! both surpassed 80,000 cars sold in the United States in 2014 . The Challenger came in at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . That’s an ass whoopin. To digress for a moment, I noticed during my research that, when compared to a lot of other “performance cars”, it’s a pretty decent showing. The FR-S and BRZ sold 21,566 combined in 2014. The Nissan 370Z? 7199 units sold in 2014. The venerable Miata sold 4745 last year. They sold more Snuggies. Probably. So while the Challenger gets its large rear end handed to it by its main rivals, it could be worse.

So how does MOPAR compete with Ford and Chevy? Do lap times on the Nurburgring matter? Ford and Chevy both seem to think so based on their level of testing at the infamous German track. Most people are screaming at their monitor at this point “The Challenger is too heavy!” Generally speaking, the screamers are correct. The 2014 SRT-8 was over 4100 pounds. Even the lighter V6 SXT iterations were over 3800 pounds. But when you look at the competition, they aren’t really that heavy. The 2015 SS Camaro surpasses 3900 pounds The ZL1 is well over 4000 pounds Even the new clean sheet design Mustang is around 3700 pounds. At least the Challenger comes with a useable back seat! It’s pretty gigantic in comparison, some 2-3 more leg room than the Ford or Chevy respectively. So on sheer numbers, it’s not as outclassed as we thought.

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The Track

But weight is just a number. It’s what you do with it that matters, right. Sounds like something someone says when they know their heavy car is about to get beat ’round a track. And slower it is, Motortrend came out with one of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! between the 2015 pony cars. They brought a 1LE SS Camaro, an R/T 6.4 Scat Pack Challenger, and a new Mustang with the Performance Pack. The Challenger had the most expensive base price but the least expensive price as tested and came with the most power, but the most weight by 400 pounds! It had the fastest quarter mile, but took the longest to brake. Lap times were consistently slower by 1-3 seconds, which is an eon in track time. Same story with lateral G numbers, they were lower. Of note, the Dodge that MT had was sporting the 8-speed automatic, but I don’t think that would have made up the gulf in any of the major performance tests. So why choose the Dodge over the other two? Well that depends on what you want it for. I submit that if you want a muscle car to cruise the street, maybe take a run down the 1/4 mile strip, the Dodge is your car. It’s more comfortable, has the retro look nailed, and is priced very competitively for what you get. Plus, Hellcat. But if you want a fast GT car that can also spend some on an autocross or road course, the Mustang and Camaro are the way to go. Or you throw all that crap out the window and pick the one from the company you grew up liking. Sort of like politics, doesn’t really matter which one is better, this is just how you always vote.

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The Diet

So that brings us to the question, how can the Dodge Challenger be more competitive? They bring the power, but also bring the weight. Rumor is that the 2017 Challenger will shed 300 pounds and several inches all around. So it’ll be lighter and dimensionally smaller. I’ll be interested to see how their engine choices change, will they have a turbo option as well? But what if you own a Challenger already, or found a killer deal on a used one. Can you do a serious weight reduction on your Challenger? Would you even want to? Is it worth the effort? It’s certainly possible, the modern version of the Challenger has been around for several years and those looking to Lotus up their Dodge have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Although that website won’t come up anymore, perhaps a business model of sitting around weighing shit wasn’t profitable. Regardless, good work like this should help the average owner target some weight and either remove or swap out some bits. Of note, swapping in an aluminum block for the cast iron piece supposedly saves around 80 pounds over the front wheels. Damn, that’s pretty good. There are a bunch of folks online who claim to be down around 3500 pounds which is a significant weight savings over stock. Of course you need to build to a purpose. Are you just looking to go faster? Knock yourself out, remove ALL the things. Just realize that all that lightness comes with some many comfort penalties. Maybe you don’t care nothing ’bout that, and are prepping for a certain race series? Then pay attention to the rules, you might find yourself in a class you didn’t expect running against cars that were already light from the factory.

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The Summary

So what is the point of all this blogging nonsense? Well, it appears that, for a modern muscle/pony car to sell well, it needs to be smaller and lighter. Was the reason for the extra 30 thousand Mustangs and Camaros sold based on that factor? Perhaps, but I assure you it wasn’t to related to quicker lap times, we all know that the entry level model sells in greater numbers a lot of the time. So the V6 Camaro and the new Mustang (which is killing it with regard to sales during the beginning of 2015) are more attractive to that buyer looking for a sporty 2+2 and the big Challenger isn’t making their radar. So if Dodge can change that for the 2017, maybe they will reclaim some of the market. I admit though, I’ll be a little sad to see the big girl go away, but I bet I could get a great deal on a used SRT-8. I already have a few ideas of how to make it lighter.

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Image Credits
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The Track: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
The Diet: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Summary: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

jkm7680 > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:28

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It can loose a shitton of weight and blind spots.

/end thread

William Byrd > jkm7680 06/19/2015 at 14:33

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If you read through the article, it’s not that much heavier than its rivals. The Camaro ZL1 is 4120 lbs.

jkm7680 > William Byrd 06/19/2015 at 14:34

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But it LOOKS heavy and if it looks heavy, that automatically means that it is heavy.

Nah, but it looks massive and bloated compared to the other two.

William Byrd > jkm7680 06/19/2015 at 14:35

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Agreed. Definitely looks massive in comparison.

Connqr > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:35

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Lose ALL of the sound deadening with the v8 and tweak the exhaust system to pump out a killer soundtrack.

jkm7680 > William Byrd 06/19/2015 at 14:36

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I’d also risk to say that it looks closer to the original than the other two.

Alfalfa Romeo > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:37

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That’s honestly why I love the Challenger over it’s competitors. GM and Ford are trying to make their ponies compete with the Europeans, and Dodge just says “fuck that, let’s build a muscle car the way we always have.”

I’m not sure whether or not that’s their intention, but that’s how I see and like it.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:39

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fuck losing weight.

I am saying this right now that when I get a muscle car, I’m buying a Challenger; and not a mustang or a Camaro.

The mustang is awesome. Hence why it sells so well. The problem is, it sells too well! I can’t go a day without seeing at least 3 of the new mustangs on the road. And while the Camaro is also a cool car, and I really like their recepie of light and fast, I just don’t like it as much as a challenger.

So what if the challenger doesn’t corner? To paraphrase James May here; a car’s Nurburgring lap time is not what makes it great. It’s the soul and the character of the car. To me, the mustang and Camaro seem like machines that follow the norm and try to be socially acceptable in order to gain customers. The challenger doesn’t do that. Today, There is nothing socially acceptable about a loud, snarling, lazy monstrosity that rivals some pickup trucks in weight, and gets 13 MPG if driven in the city.

That’s it’s charm though. Sure, it’s not a car that can handle well; but who gives a fuck? if you can afford to buy a $45K R/T Scat Pack, you can afford a $3K Miata; and I hear those handle great!

BigBlock440 > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:41

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Well, it appears that, for a modern muscle/pony car to sell well, it needs to be smaller and lighter.

Correlation =/= causation .

Or you throw all that crap out the window and pick the one from the company you grew up liking. Sort of like politics, doesn’t really matter which one is better, this is just how you always vote.

This here, this is the real reason. It doesn’t matter which one is better, all three are “good enough” and “fast enough” for most of the people buying them. A large majority of the owners aren’t going to race them, and sure, maybe they’ll cross shop, but ultimately it comes down to it being the car they wanted from the start. And that’s the reason the Dodge is going to be behind for a few more years at least, there are a lot more Chevy and Ford guys than there are Mopar guys. And that’s not going to change overnight, maybe it never will.

William Byrd > jkm7680 06/19/2015 at 14:42

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Definitely. Which I personally like, they did retro the best IMO. But it may put some buyers off who don’t want a retro muscle car but are looking for a 2-door sporty car.

BigBlock440 > jkm7680 06/19/2015 at 14:46

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That’s no risk, it does look closer to the original than the other two. Before the new Challenger was reveled, many people that saw it thought it was just a ‘70 with some custom bodywork.

PS9 > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 14:49

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Maybe it doesn’t need to be ‘more competitive’. Third best selling RWD coupe car in the US market is hardly the worst place to be, especially when that’s more than double the volume of the next best selling RWD coupe car(s). Not every two door out there needs to try and be a Lotus and do bench presses on the ‘ring.

If you want a two door with almost as much back seat room as a 4 door compact, RWD, and enough trunk space for two golf bags and a trip to walmart, you’re options on this market are vanishingly slim. The next best option for this kind of thing is almost another $50k away. A big coupe car might not be able to be a track star like the GT350 is destined to be, but so what? Miata’s and BRZs would be at the top of the market instead of the Chally/Stang/Camaro if that’s what people really wanted.

Entropic Force > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 15:00

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Great write-up. I was just talking about something like this the other day with a friend. The Hellcats are damn sexy, but we weren’t sure where they stood up to the competition.

Do you think the more expensive base-price is a reasonable explanation for lower sales? Maybe that combined with the brand/model recognition could explain why Mustang and Camaro are trouncing the Dodge cars.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 15:01

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You don’t buy a Challlenger to beat others, you buy a Challenger to be seen in a Challenger. It’s a car thatvmakes you feel cool. You’re buying the image, the nostalgia. Any performance that comes with it is just icing on the cake.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 15:14

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Honestly, I don’t think that many people cross shop these for performance. These cars are bought by people with loyalty. If you are a mopar guy you would get the challenger without thinking twice. Even if it doesn’t perform as well you wouldn’t be caught dead in anything else.

Same with the other two as well. They are shipped based on looks and opinions mainly.

William Byrd > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 06/19/2015 at 15:21

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I think that applies for some people. I’m a Mustang guy, but I’ve owned a Camaro and at this point in my life (3 kids) the Challenger’s size might sway me. In a good way.

Dasupersprint - base trim is enough > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 15:24

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I would’ve considered it if it had a manual with the V6

Axial > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 16:40

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The Challenger is doing fine. Last time I checked the yearly sales numbers, the quantity has increased year-over-year for every year since its introduction. I’m also not interested in making it a road-handling car like the Camaro and Mustang are doing, because that’s not the point.

About the only things that would make it better would be lower weight and a return of the purple and orange options. The current palette is super lame.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 18:18

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I might argue that it might need a new take, rather than being so strictly retro-70s designed.

I am not saying a full clean slate approach, but just perhaps a re-think and a meld of 70’s styling cues and long-hood, short-deck proportions, but with some future-forward thinking on the details and features, and I am not talking about hybrid drive at all.

A bit more aerodynamics, rather than strict form replication of yester-year, perhaps a fastback, and the return of a hatchback.

HUD instrumentation and a driver-centered cockpit with some futuristic touches, perhaps, a bit more Chrysler Firepower concept DNA introduced into the mix, although not all the way to a 2-seat corvette fighter, which would under-cut the Viper, which it doesn’t need.

Losing the weight but keeping or improving the power to weight ratio is never un-welcome.

wiffleballtony > RightFootDown 06/19/2015 at 20:31

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My complete off the top of my head is that they’re way too expensive. You gotta get the SRT8 model to get equalish performance to the Mustang GT. One of the reasons I didn’t get a Challenger anyway.